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JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello ProMash Brewers!

We have ready the 1'st draft of he new 2004 BJCP Style Guidelines for those who would like first crack at it.

In the past, the user-base has always found errors in updated style guidelines that we here did not, forcing another near immediate upgrade (in one case, three, ugh). Because of this, we have decided to pre-release these to users who would like them, to gather comment and find errors or emmissions before sending them off to the general user base at large. So before you begin, please read the following closely.

1) The new BJCP guidelines are a complete route. It was not possible to simple provide an "import" file for minor modifications or additional entries into existing categories, as everything changed. So, you will be downloading a completely new STYLES.BJCP file. I recommend you first backup your existing STYLES.BJCP file to a safe place, just in case. It is found in the root ProMash folder, usually installed in your Program Files folder. Simply copy it to a safe place.

2) Your existing recipes and brewing sessions will continue to reflect the OLD guidelines (as local copies are inserted into recipes and sessions) and will not be affected by the change UNTIL you manually change the style. This is good because many categories changed number/letter groups which would have been disasterous otheriwse. So, in order to change an *existing* recipe or session to the new guidelines you will need to open up the recipe or sessions and manually pick the style from the new guideline database again.

And of course, all NEWLY created recipes (after the upgrade) will reflect the new guidlines.

3) Please post all errors (spelling or otherwise) here in this thread, we will correct them as we find them.

Hopefully if all goes well we will officially release the new guidelines in the ProMash downloads and installs and make the file available to all.

To download the new guidelines simply click on the link below and when you save the file save it to the default ProMsh folder, overwriting the existing guideline file. Or save it somewhere else and manually move it there after the download.

2004 BJCP Style Guidelines

Cheers!

Jeff

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bonjour

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Reply with quote  #2 
Jeff,
I just took a couple of minutes to glance at a couple of styles I've just brewed and here is what I found.

Style 21-B Christmas/Winter Specialty Spiced Beer
Quoting from the style guide “Ingredients: Generally ales, although some dark strong lagers exist”
Should be listed as an Ale/Lager not just an Ale

Style 22-B Other Smoked Beer
Quoting from the style guide “This is any beer that is exhibiting smoke as a principle flavor”
"Comments: Any style of beer can be smoked”
“Any” beer would include Lagers. Lagers are referenced several times in the history section.
Should be listed as an Ale/Lager not just an Ale

Noted that the Style guide didn't give specific numbers
I just brewed a Spiced Imperial Stout as a Christmas Ale (21-B), it is quite a bit darker than a 25 SRM

On the 22-B, how do you get (even close) to a FG of 1.015 with a 1.120 OG?

These "open" categories should all have a common set of wide numbers.

more later

Fred Bonjour

JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Fred,

Agreed on styles 21-B, 22-B. Will change to Ale/Lager category.

"Noted that the Style guide didn't give specific numbers
I just brewed a Spiced Imperial Stout as a Christmas Ale (21-B), it is quite a bit darker than a 25 SRM"


Not sure what you mean. The style guidelines fo give specific Min/Max numbers for OG, FG, IBU, ALC and SRM. If you brewed something out of style (IE to high an SRM) how does that relate to the guidelines?

On the 22-B, how do you get (even close) to a FG of 1.015 with a 1.120 OG?

The OG are ranges. Just because the upper limit OG is 1.120 does not mean it will ferment to the low ferment limit of 1.015. Note the minum for OG in that category is 1.020, in which case pretty easy to ferment to 1.015. As it's a wide open range category based on the underlying beer it could be anything.

We have tried to provide common numbers for all open categories, but these will vary based on whether it is Beer, Cider and/or Mead. However please do continue to point out any inconsistencies between these groups. I hate the wide open categories....argh....

Cheers!

- Jeff



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JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #4 
Oh I understand the comment on the Color category now. It's also an open category so you are suggesting the guide be higher for SRM.

Yea, could do that. Problem is with these as the BJCP sometimes DOES put some type of descriptor. Sometimes they say:

1) Wide open

Sometimes they say

2) 20+

or

3) 30+

So when they do try to put some type of number, you gotta figure the limit is near there. If it's wide open I would put the absolute max. So, question is where is the limit. In this case the actual SRM guidelines are 20+. I think...sorry at the laptop....will be sure later today.

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bonjour

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Reply with quote  #5 
Jeff,
After all this you need a homebrew,

For styles 20, 21A, 21B, 22B, 22C, and 23
I would recommend the following settings
OG 1.028 – 1.130
FG 0.998 – 1.035
Abv 2.5 – 14%
IBU 3 – 120
SRM 2 - 40

These are the "open" styles The numbers are from the max and mins of all the beer styles (didn't check the meads and ciders)
16E could arguably be placed here also. Reading the BJCP description I would.

The 16E numbers "currently" don't even encompass the range of values for the group 16 Belgians and the "style" is intended to include all the 18x Belgians too.

I'm kegging my Kolsch tonight.

Fred Bonjour
bonjour

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Reply with quote  #6 
More Style corrections Styles 1-7
Style 1A Min FG should be 0.998 vs 1.000
Style 1C Max OG should be 1.056 vs. 1.560 (that’s a real big lite beer )
Style 2B Min SRM should be 3.5 vs 3
Style 4C Min SRM should be 30(+) vs 40
Style 5C Max OG should be 1.096(+) vs 1.120
Style 5C Max FG should be 1.024(+) vs 1.030
Style 5C Max abv should be 10(+) vs 12
Style 5C Max IBU should be 26(+) vs. 40
Style 5C Min SRM should be 25 vs 30
Style 5D Max FG should be 1.035(+) vs 1.040
Style 5D Max abv should be 14(+) vs 16
Style 5D Max IBU should be 35(+) vs. 50
Style 5D Min SRM should be 30(+) vs 50
Style 6B Min SRM should be 2.5 vs 25
Style 6A should be Ale/Lager mixed quoting from the style guide "lager strains were (and sometimes still are) used by some brewers"
I noted that the BJCP Style Chart has 6A and 6B reversed from the Style guide.

I understand the dilemma with the (+) ratings. One of the strengths of ProMash is the strictness that you follow guidelines by. If you choose to interpet the (+) as say 10% over then it needs to be consistant at that.

More later
Fred
JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #7 
hMMM Ok I re-read you post a couple times and understand it.

So, what *would* you consider appropriate for the (+) ratings? 10%, 20% ?

My feeling is yea, probably 10% would be a good consistent value.

- Jeff


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bonjour

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Reply with quote  #8 
Jeff, You do a great job with this product.

I know I missed all the discussion that has occurred on your beta list so forgive me if I seem to be rehashing some things.

Going back (quite) a few years I remember applying a 20% "fudge" factor to many engineering calculations. Seems that would be a good number. I would not go below 10%, and I don't think I'd go over 20%. I know you have some real good people on your beta group, You might want to forward this to them and ask. I do feel that you need to acknowledge the given number and apply a consistent
fudge to all the +'s.

I know I missed all the discussion that has occurred on your beta list.

Fred

bonjour

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Reply with quote  #9 
Jeff,
Here is the last of the beer fixes except for making all the "+'s" consistent.

Style 14C max FG should be 1.020 vs 1.200
Style 15B max OG should be 1.056 vs 1.052
Style 17B SRM should be 10-16 vs 15-20
Style 17D IBU should should match styles 17C and 17E 2-10 vs 5-10 for <10
Style 18A SRM should be 4-6 vs 45-6

Again, I have not checked cider or mead

Fred
bonjour

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Reply with quote  #10 
Here are corrections for Meads and Ciders

I would recommend
OG 1.035 – 1.120
FG .990 – 1.168 (1.140 + 20%)
Abv 3.5 – 18%
For styles 25A-C and 26A-C

OG 1.035 – 1.120
Abv 3.5 – 18%
For Styles 24A-C
The above is based on the following from page 22 of the style guide


Vital Statistics:
OG:         hydromel: 1.035 – 1.080         standard: 1.080 – 1.120         sack: 1.120 – 1.140+                
ABV:         hydromel: 3.5 – 7.5%         standard: 7.5 – 14%         sack: 14 – 18%
FG:         dry: 0.990 – 1.010         semi-sweet: 1.010 – 1.025         sweet: 1.025 – 1.040+

Other corrections
24A FG .990-1.010
24C FG 1.025 – 1.048 (1.040 + 20%)
27A FG .995 – 1.020
27B FG .995 – 1.010
28A FG .995-1.010
28B OG 1.045 – 1.070 FG .995 – 1.010
28C FG .995 – 1.010 abv 9-12%
28D FG .995 – 1.020


Fred
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Reply with quote  #11 
14C - IIPA
The upper limit for IBU's says 0.
JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #12 
Updated the BJCP style again today (Monday, 10-11-04 6:00 PM PST). Instructions for downloading are the same as above. Use the link above to download the newest revision.

All reported errors or omissions have been corrected.

Any entry with a '+' indicator has been set to 20% above the designator entry.

This should get us there but please do report any errors. Hopefully we will release this to the entire usebase soon.

Cheers!

- Jeff

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MeBrewer

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Reply with quote  #13 

When will the final version of the new BJCP guidelines be available for download?

JDonovan

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Reply with quote  #14 
The version posted here is final as of 12-1-04.

Cheers!

- Jeff

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twocents

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Reply with quote  #15 
I just tried downloading it and putting it into Promash. It quit working, so I had to put the old file back..
any ideas?

two cents ¢¢

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